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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 657

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for the 16th of may 2021 richard

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saunders here with you from

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sydney australia cold a cold snap

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i wonder why they call it a cold snap

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snap frozen

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something like that apart from that it's

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a very sunny day

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maybe this is the kind of day which

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would be nice to

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wander around the city parks and look at

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lovely autumn trees

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see the odd bit of lavender here and

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there maybe

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you can dress nice and warmly in a

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purple

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top or something like that but before

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you do all that

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listen to the skeptic zone or you could

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listen

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to the skeptic zone while you're doing

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all that coming up on this week's show

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maynard is back with an interview

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maynard interviews doctor

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sathana dushyanthan from melbourne

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university

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and she is involved with cancer research

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and looking at covert 19

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myths and misconceptions and she's also

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taking part in the pint of science

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series hear about the cancer

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misconceptions

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covert 19 myths coming up with maynard

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at the top of the show

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following that it's a report from the

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united states where the federal trade

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commission

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is taking action also against covert 19

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dodgy products being sold and the law

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coming down like a ton of bricks

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then we have the return of the book of

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tim with tim mandum

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now i went round tim's place the other

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day to record a whole series of

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the book of tim and we took the

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opportunity to have a

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talk about what's coming up in the next

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issue of the skeptic magazine

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the journal from australian skeptics and

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we sort of just go off on weird sort of

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skeptical tangents

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so a chat with tim mendem a bit later on

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on the show

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then to round everything off we have

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another look into the digitized archives

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of newspapers

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and this time we're looking for

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references to alien

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abductions and we also read about the

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heavens gate

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cult that's all from me at the moment

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it's time for me to run downstairs

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toast with um cheese while i do that i

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hope you enjoy

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here's maynard's spooky action

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well pineapple science has got some

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important stuff coming up in the near

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future with a real star case that's

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going to be doing something there we've

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got

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sithana desanthian doc doctor sathana

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desanthium on the line how are you

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good thank you guys how are you thanks

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very much for having me on the show

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oh look it's great to have you on the

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show i'll just uh so look you a graduate

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program lead you're an online teaching

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and educate educational specialist

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does that mean you don't like having

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people in front of you you like doing it

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online that people

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in the room annoy you when you're trying

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to teach them not at all i actually

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really enjoy face-to-face teaching but

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it's turned out well in

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the covet era where everything's become

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online um but i think online is really

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the way of the future especially with

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uh short attention spans and really busy

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people oh

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research capstone coordinator master of

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cancer sciences that's that's a big one

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i don't understand the word capstone

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because i'm not really a tertiary

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education person does that mean you

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you guide it in some way what does that

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mean yeah so

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uh capstone is an overarching term i

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guess which is used a lot

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when it's like the main piece that

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students have to pass to get their

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master's degree um so it's like a

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six-month research project that they

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undertake in an area of interest

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and it's actually also done online now

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and where did you get your degree

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and why did you end up specializing in

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the area you do now and being a science

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communicator as well

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um oh i've studied in a couple of

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different places i guess i did my

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undergraduate at monash and i was doing

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biomedical science there

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um and it was kind of in my third year

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where they really introduced us to

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research and

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i was just fascinated by how

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uh sort of innovative it was and also

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how it was also trying to discover

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something that we didn't already know

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and so

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that idea of not knowing something and

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learning about something new was um

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really exciting to me but then i went on

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to do my masters and my phd at

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the university of melbourne uh because

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i guess you hear that they have great

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research programs and they had a great

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program for

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cancer research look with your work at

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the victorian comprehensive cancer

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center you must come across

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all sorts of wild theories and look

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you've spent a lot of time in this area

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you obviously

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know a lot for your research what is the

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thing that really

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well grinds your gears i believe is the

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technical term that people use for it in

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the academia

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what's the one thing when you see it and

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it's wrong and you go

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what's the one thing every time or are

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you act naturally very peaceful person

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uh i'd like to think i'm a naturally a

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level-headed person i don't know about

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peaceful

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um i think people talk about cures a lot

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and i don't know if that's the correct

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terminology because

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i'm not sure that we have found a cure

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yet and i feel like cancer is one of

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those diseases that's constantly

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evolving and changing and so when we say

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cure i think we're kind of

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misleading people a little bit um

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but yeah i mean i don't know i don't

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know that there's anything that

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really upsets me about what people say

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because i think you have to take it with

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the

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well here's a direct covert conspiracy

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that i was watching myself on a youtube

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video the other day

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and it was saying that the the covered

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uh

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virus has receptors on it that are also

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in hiv so this could not occur naturally

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and had to be made in the lab

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now is there anything in that at all is

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there anything in that sentence that's

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even correct

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uh no i don't think so no but then they

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had the woman from

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the who made the movie pandemic come on

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and explain it she said well this

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couldn't even evolve in 800 years and

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it's done it in less than 10

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aha is what she said is very similar to

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the situation where the guy

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who used to work at pfizer came up with

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the misinformation that it

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causes fertility issues um and there was

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no basis for it but

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because of where he worked and um what

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he was it became like a huge

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viral um cycle and it yeah and now it's

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one of the things that we're constantly

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having to address

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is whether um the fear that people think

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that the covered vaccine causes

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fertility issues when it actually

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doesn't

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well yeah it's the case that it hasn't

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been tested for that because

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that hasn't been done yet is that the

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reason uh well no i mean like they've

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looked into the science and

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um so they're saying you know there's a

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protein on

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um the spike protein in the coronavirus

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which is the same as a protein

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that's involved in placental development

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but like the sequence that they share

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is very very small and so there's no way

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that those things can interact

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at all but you know it's like these

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little inklings of truth that then get

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blown out

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and then um completely change i think

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the narrative

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and uh make it into something that it's

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not and it's the old one

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about the a lie can get around the world

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ten times before the truth has had a

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chance

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to get its pants or its hat on uh and

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that's the case because for you to

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explain that

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you're gonna have to take about four

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times longer than the person who just

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mentioned it hey yeah

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the hiv thing the covert yeah whoa look

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out

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and the person's probably gone yeah

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that's correct i mean when you put out a

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video or any article you've got to

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reference about a hundred sources right

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just to cover all your bases and

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especially with something that's so

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current there's research coming up

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pretty much you know every hour of every

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day

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so it's impossible to stay across all of

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the content but yeah you try your best

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and with the vaccine that's becoming

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available i've booked in to have it in

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about a month's time i'm getting it i

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was speaking to someone

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yesterday and they said i probably won't

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get it and their reason for not getting

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the vaccine was

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there's not a lot of covert around they

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didn't think

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oh okay and that's a tough one to argue

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with because

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i i can't well here's three people

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standing next to me now that have

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covered meet them

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um yes if it hasn't personally touched

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you a lot of people might not get it

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yeah and i think that's the case for a

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lot of things but um i don't think the

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answer is that simple

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i mean the reason we have no covet is

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because our borders are completely shut

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to everyone right

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yeah funny funny that that might be one

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reason why it's not around

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yeah right but at some stage we need to

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open up and normalize again and when

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that happens there is a lot of covert

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around the world

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um and we are vulnerable to that um like

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for example there was a plane that was

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coming here with the reparation

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uh citizens from india and i think

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50 out of the 170 had um

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covert and they can't travel now so you

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know when it's coming in it's coming in

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on flights

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even if it's in quarantine quarantine

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has leaks and

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we're always going to be vulnerable i

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think and there's no way for this

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pandemic to end unless

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we get like 80 percent um herd immunity

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00:09:55,590 --> 00:09:54,560
and that requires people to get

284
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vaccinated

285
00:09:59,910 --> 00:09:57,760
what's the biggest myth that's out there

286
00:10:00,230 --> 00:09:59,920
or the biggest hobby conspiracy that you

287
00:10:04,230 --> 00:10:00,240
think

288
00:10:04,630 --> 00:10:04,240
is the most dangerous uh i'll give you

289
00:10:06,949 --> 00:10:04,640
two

290
00:10:08,710 --> 00:10:06,959
one is the most ridiculous one that i've

291
00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:08,720
heard which is the 5g

292
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:11,920
and the phone towers and uh mass having

293
00:10:16,069 --> 00:10:14,160
you know wires in them and the vaccine

294
00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:16,079
being microchipped and you know bill

295
00:10:17,990 --> 00:10:17,760
gates is involved that's probably the

296
00:10:22,069 --> 00:10:18,000
most

297
00:10:23,990 --> 00:10:22,079
one is the one where people think it's

298
00:10:25,829 --> 00:10:24,000
going to alter their dna

299
00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:25,839
and there's absolutely no truth to this

300
00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:27,600
and you know these kinds of vaccines

301
00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:29,200
have been tested and used for a very

302
00:10:32,870 --> 00:10:30,640
long time

303
00:10:33,670 --> 00:10:32,880
and just i think the fact that you know

304
00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:33,680
it's called a

305
00:10:37,670 --> 00:10:36,240
mrna or a dna-based vaccine gets people

306
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:37,680
worried and that's fair enough

307
00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:40,399
but i think they also need to listen to

308
00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:42,399
the experts when they say that it does

309
00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:43,920
not affect your dna

310
00:10:47,910 --> 00:10:45,760
and maybe that will be something that

311
00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:47,920
happens over time once people see

312
00:10:51,190 --> 00:10:49,519
that you know more and more people are

313
00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:51,200
taking it and it gets socialized and

314
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:52,320
then it becomes a

315
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:55,040
case of you know you're opting out and

316
00:10:58,870 --> 00:10:55,680
and

317
00:11:01,030 --> 00:10:58,880
that vaccination is the norm um but yeah

318
00:11:02,550 --> 00:11:01,040
i think right now that's probably one of

319
00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:02,560
the biggest hesitancies

320
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:04,640
is that people think it was rushed and

321
00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:06,399
made too quickly and that it affects

322
00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:07,680
your dna in some way

323
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:10,640
do you think people this this is the

324
00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:12,000
word stem but in a different way do you

325
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:13,200
think this sort of thinking

326
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:14,800
stems from the fact that people are

327
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:16,800
suspicious of big business

328
00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:18,240
so it's not so much initially

329
00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:21,040
anti-science it's anti-greedy

330
00:11:25,269 --> 00:11:23,360
capitalists and so by

331
00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:25,279
guilt by association they think ah

332
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:26,800
they're just trying to make money so

333
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:28,959
they're fudging the science

334
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:30,560
yeah that's a good point actually and i

335
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:32,079
think uh you know

336
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:34,720
it prehistoric in through history i

337
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:36,720
think pharmaceutical companies have had

338
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:37,519
that sort of

339
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:41,120
um view of them is that you know they're

340
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:42,800
out to make money in their money making

341
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:43,839
machines

342
00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:45,680
but i think the difference with this is

343
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:47,279
you know we're in a pandemic

344
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:49,839
and they are they've been very open and

345
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:51,680
transparent about their findings they've

346
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:53,120
been transparent about

347
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:55,279
um what kind of profits they're making

348
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:57,360
and how a lot of it is you know

349
00:12:01,110 --> 00:11:58,880
a lot of it is they're not making money

350
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:01,120
they're doing it you know um

351
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:03,680
wholesale i guess and so i think people

352
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:04,320
need to

353
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:06,800
kind of be a little bit more accepting

354
00:12:09,509 --> 00:12:07,920
of the fact that

355
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:09,519
yes this may have been the case in the

356
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:11,040
past but then

357
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,720
there are good intentions here because

358
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:14,480
it's a global problem and

359
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:16,560
you know nobody can go back to normal

360
00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:18,800
until it is fixed

361
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:21,440
and and why do you think bill gates cops

362
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:22,959
it so much is it because he's a really

363
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:24,639
rich guy and he's not really a doctor

364
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:26,160
and that's why people criticize him or

365
00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:28,160
they're just jealous of his money

366
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:31,040
uh i i don't know actually but i would

367
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:31,440
say

368
00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:33,519
that it's because he's had so much

369
00:12:36,949 --> 00:12:34,880
involvement in science

370
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:36,959
especially in you know the malaria space

371
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:38,880
and vaccination and he's got these

372
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:40,639
programs for innovation and that kind of

373
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:42,880
thing and so he's kind of in that space

374
00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:44,639
and he does have a lot of money which

375
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,480
means that he can push agendas and he

376
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:48,399
can kind of control what happens

377
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:50,160
and so i think that's where people's

378
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:52,320
hesitation might come from but

379
00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:54,320
um you know at the end of the day he is

380
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:56,160
a kind of philanthropist i guess and

381
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:58,160
he's trying to do good things so

382
00:13:01,590 --> 00:13:00,079
i it it just depends on which way you

383
00:13:03,829 --> 00:13:01,600
look at it

384
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,839
and for a final question here what's

385
00:13:08,069 --> 00:13:05,680
something we can all take away

386
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:08,079
from people who have out their theories

387
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:09,440
and things that don't fit in with the

388
00:13:13,030 --> 00:13:10,720
science what's the

389
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:13,040
the way we can perhaps when we meet

390
00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:14,639
these people or they argue with us

391
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,279
online

392
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:17,600
what's the best way to go about this and

393
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:19,120
help rather than hinder

394
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:20,560
sometimes i think the best thing to do

395
00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:23,040
before you push send on anything on

396
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:25,600
social media i always think will they

397
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:26,320
thank me

398
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:29,680
the answer is usually no

399
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:31,839
so i just don't do anything but that's

400
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:32,720
just me

401
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:36,240
um i i think like one of the worst

402
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:38,240
places that this kind of misinformation

403
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,680
is spreading is sort of through

404
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:41,600
whatsapp and you know these closed

405
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:43,519
groups and there's these crazy chains

406
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:44,639
going around which

407
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:47,120
have no source resources to them and

408
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:48,240
like no

409
00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:51,519
um verification but people keep on

410
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:52,720
sending it forward

411
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:55,120
so i think people need to stop and think

412
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:55,920
about

413
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:57,600
what they're doing and what effect that

414
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,440
is going to have on the multiple people

415
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:01,279
that then go on to forward to

416
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:02,800
you know exponential amounts of people

417
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:05,040
that they know like the only way you can

418
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,560
stop it is if you stop it

419
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:08,320
and then that chain is broken and i

420
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:10,399
think that is sort of the only way

421
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:13,120
because this is such a big issue it

422
00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:14,480
starts with you i think

423
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:16,720
so think about what it is saying and

424
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:17,519
what the

425
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:19,120
you know where the sources are coming

426
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,680
from and whether you really believe it

427
00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:23,680
to be true and maybe go and fact check

428
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:26,079
yourself before you forward something on

429
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:28,480
or but also before you say something

430
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:30,079
make sure you've got the facts

431
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:31,760
don't just go off half [\h__\h] like i do i

432
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:33,519
just go no it's not and then i go oh

433
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:35,360
dear i shouldn't sit down

434
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:38,480
and i think saying i don't know is okay

435
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,920
i think people feel like they have to

436
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:41,839
have all the answers but nobody has all

437
00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:42,880
the answers

438
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,959
i i can't believe how you're so how

439
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,800
you're so not angry about this like i

440
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:48,480
said earlier with what you've done and

441
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,240
what you know and you see that sort of

442
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:52,320
rubbish that's on social media i don't

443
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:53,360
know why you aren't just

444
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:55,199
fist bumping the air and being angry but

445
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:56,399
you've got a big smile on your face

446
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:58,079
you're going yeah you can educate people

447
00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:00,639
and bloody hell you're good you're good

448
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:01,920
you're you've got you've got a you've

449
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:03,920
got a inner calm that i have not got see

450
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:05,120
i'm getting angry now i'm not even

451
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:06,160
talking to someone who's disagreeing

452
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:07,839
with me

453
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:09,600
yeah i don't know getting angry doesn't

454
00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:11,360
do anything right you can't reach those

455
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:13,279
people and nothing will change so it's

456
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:14,720
small changes

457
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:16,560
one at a time with the starting with the

458
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:17,760
people you know because

459
00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:19,680
you trust the people you know right and

460
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:21,519
then hopefully they can

461
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:23,760
amplify that signal and what will you be

462
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:25,279
doing at part of science

463
00:15:29,749 --> 00:15:28,240
i'm not sure yet actually but um uh

464
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:29,759
science is a great program and i've been

465
00:15:32,389 --> 00:15:31,199
involved for a couple of years so i'm

466
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:32,399
pretty excited to

467
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:33,680
watch and see what other people get up

468
00:15:35,749 --> 00:15:34,959
to cool and we look forward to seeing

469
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:35,759
you there

470
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:37,759
thank you you too thank you very much

471
00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:39,680
for your time today i hope i've asked

472
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:40,800
some questions that are vaguely

473
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:43,040
interesting yeah thank you guys it's uh

474
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,560
really an honor and a pleasure to be a

475
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:45,920
part of the program oh look look it's

476
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:46,880
great to have someone

477
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:48,160
i hope it was interesting well look it's

478
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:49,600
good to have someone who knows what

479
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,639
they're talking about i mean richard

480
00:16:06,829 --> 00:15:52,800
normally has to have me on

481
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:08,890
evening

482
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:19,440
[Music]

483
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:21,360
did you know the european continent is

484
00:16:26,150 --> 00:16:24,399
home to almost 750 million people living

485
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:26,160
in 50 different countries

486
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,160
belonging to an even greater number of

487
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:30,160
ethnicities and believe it or not

488
00:16:33,749 --> 00:16:32,320
only a handful of them list english as

489
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:33,759
the first or at least one of the

490
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:34,959
official languages

491
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:36,320
and there's an amazing amount of

492
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:38,240
skeptical activism going on out there

493
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:40,000
that you are not aware of because it's

494
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:41,040
not in english

495
00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:42,959
yeah because you know pseudoscience

496
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:44,399
quackery and fake news

497
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:46,320
do not stop at borders they get

498
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:48,000
translated to other languages

499
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:49,920
and transferred across the whole world

500
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:52,000
so if you're interested in weekly

501
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:53,839
updates on what's going on

502
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:55,920
in some of the countries here providing

503
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:58,079
you with all the interesting facts news

504
00:17:01,990 --> 00:17:00,160
and even some skeptical history

505
00:17:03,749 --> 00:17:02,000
or if you want to hear interviews in

506
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,759
english with brilliant people you

507
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:05,520
sometimes haven't even heard about

508
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,679
then what you need is to subscribe to

509
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,880
the esp

510
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:11,199
extra sensory perception you must be

511
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:12,240
really wrong

512
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:15,600
no the espsn the european skeptics

513
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:16,400
podcast

514
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:18,400
that's right and if you're wondering how

515
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:19,839
you can find us online

516
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:23,199
go to thesp.edu and you can also find us

517
00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:26,240
on twitter at es podcast underscore eu

518
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:28,240
or you can like us on facebook and if

519
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:29,520
you want to subscribe

520
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:31,440
do a quick search on all the intertubes

521
00:17:35,909 --> 00:17:33,600
for the european skeptics podcast

522
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:35,919
you'll find us on soundcloud itunes

523
00:17:39,029 --> 00:17:36,640
stitcher

524
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:39,039
spotify and all the rest the european

525
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:40,480
skeptics podcast

526
00:17:50,050 --> 00:17:44,160
the real esp experience i don't know how

527
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:58,830
[Music]

528
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:00,559
believe

529
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:03,360
now last week on the show you would have

530
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:05,360
heard me reading out the

531
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:08,799
uh complaint made by ken mcleod

532
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:12,160
against a so-called midwife

533
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:15,440
who was resigning out of frustration

534
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:17,520
and suggesting well not suggesting

535
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:18,640
pleading

536
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:21,280
or even more being very forthright about

537
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:22,160
it

538
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:23,919
telling people not to take the vaccine

539
00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:25,760
for covert 19 because it would lead to

540
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:26,960
death

541
00:18:31,909 --> 00:18:30,080
very dramatic ken has also

542
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:31,919
supplied me with this interesting bit of

543
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:33,919
information and this comes to us

544
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:36,960
from the federal trade commission in the

545
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:38,960
united states protecting america's

546
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:40,880
consumers it says

547
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,120
and dated the 15th of april 2021

548
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:48,240
in first action under covert 19 consumer

549
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:49,760
protection act

550
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:52,720
ftc seeks monetary penalties for

551
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:54,320
deceptive marketing

552
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:57,039
of purported coronavirus treatments

553
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:57,840
agency

554
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:00,720
charges chiropractor with violating new

555
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:02,880
covert 19 consumer protection law

556
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:06,080
by deceptively marketing vitamin d and

557
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:09,200
zinc products to treat or prevent

558
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,320
covenanting and it says in part the

559
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:14,320
federal trade commission charged a st

560
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:17,440
louis based chiropractor eric anthony

561
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:21,280
nepoody and his company quick work llc

562
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:23,440
for violating the covert 19 consumer

563
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:24,480
protection act

564
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:27,360
and the federal trade commission act by

565
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:28,480
deceptively

566
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:30,559
marketing products containing vitamin d

567
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,600
and zinc

568
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,600
as scientifically proven to treat or

569
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:35,280
prevent covert 19.

570
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:37,520
this is the first case the ftc has

571
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:39,440
brought under the new law

572
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:41,600
in a federal complaint filed by the u.s

573
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:42,960
department of justice

574
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:45,679
on the ftc's behalf the commission is

575
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:46,799
asking the court

576
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:49,840
to exercise a provision of the new law

577
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:52,720
to impose monetary penalties on neputi

578
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,160
and quick work

579
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:56,880
and to grant a preliminary injunction

580
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,559
against the defendants

581
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:00,480
according to the complaint the

582
00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:02,720
defendants marketed the vitamin d

583
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:06,159
and zinc products under the brand name

584
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:09,440
wellness warrior and claimed that they

585
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:10,400
were as

586
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:13,840
or more effective than vaccines

587
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,320
that are currently available in addition

588
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:18,640
to monetary penalties the complainant

589
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:20,000
seeks to bar

590
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:22,080
the defendants from making such health

591
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:24,080
claims unless they are true

592
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,640
and can be substantiated by competent

593
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:28,960
and reliable scientific evidence

594
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:31,039
the commission also seeks to bar the

595
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:33,200
defendants from falsely claiming to have

596
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:35,280
scientific evidence about the effects of

597
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:36,720
vitamin d

598
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:39,679
and zinc on covert 19 and there is more

599
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,600
to read on this page which i will link

600
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:43,440
to in the show notes

601
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,039
but later on it goes on to say congress

602
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:49,679
passed the covert 19 consumer protection

603
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:51,039
act in 2020

604
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:54,640
making it illegal under the ftc act to

605
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:57,039
engage in deceptive marketing related to

606
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:58,080
the treatment

607
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:01,440
cure prevention mitigation or diagnosis

608
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:02,640
of covert 19

609
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:05,039
or any government benefit related to

610
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:06,240
covert 19

611
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:09,840
the law also authorizes the ftc to sink

612
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:10,799
civil monetary

613
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:14,559
penalties for first time violations

614
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:16,640
a remedy not normally available under

615
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:17,679
the ftc

616
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:20,960
act now i imagine this will not be the

617
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:22,640
last time we hear about such

618
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:24,880
action being taken by the federal trade

619
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:25,919
commission

620
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:28,640
there would be i would think thousands

621
00:21:31,510 --> 00:21:29,840
of cases of

622
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:31,520
individuals or companies making

623
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:33,600
fraudulent or deceptive

624
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:37,200
claims about treatments for covert 19.

625
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:40,400
there certainly has been in australia

626
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,080
where the most memorable

627
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:46,320
case being that of pete evans the former

628
00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:48,559
celebrity chef who was promoting a magic

629
00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:50,240
box of flashing lights

630
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:53,360
to help mitigate covert 19.

631
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:56,080
although in some respect many of us are

632
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:57,840
certainly

633
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:59,679
learning to live with what they used to

634
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:01,840
call the new normal

635
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,799
when we look to countries like india

636
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:06,720
where thousands upon thousands of people

637
00:22:10,870 --> 00:22:08,480
are dying every week

638
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:10,880
it's hardly anything that we can afford

639
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,240
to be complacent about

640
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:14,640
so well done federal trade commission i

641
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:17,840
hope there are more prosecutions in the

642
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:24,840
[Music]

643
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:33,909
g'day this is dr carl karl kruschmski

644
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:35,280
proud to be a skeptic and you can find

645
00:22:42,530 --> 00:22:37,679
out more about me at drcarl.com and get

646
00:22:42,540 --> 00:22:53,590
[Music]

647
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,020
and now a reading from the book of tim

648
00:23:00,880 --> 00:22:59,840
[Music]

649
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:00,890
with tim mendham

650
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:05,919
[Music]

651
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:08,000
with tim mendem the editor and the chief

652
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:09,520
executive up now you're not the what are

653
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:10,480
you the

654
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:11,760
executive officer i'm not chief of

655
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:15,039
anybody man all right

656
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,120
if we can keep a straight face i'm with

657
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:18,960
tim menden the editor of the skeptic

658
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:28,470
we're trying to record the book of tim

659
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:29,600
but we have

660
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:32,159
discovered that even up here in uh where

661
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:34,240
tim lives in the back of nowhere

662
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,600
planes and birds and cars are coming by

663
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:39,280
frequently tim you're the editor of the

664
00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:41,039
magazine the skeptic from australian

665
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:42,159
skeptics you're the

666
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:44,960
executive officer of australian skeptics

667
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:45,600
inc

668
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:48,880
what's coming up what's coming up what's

669
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,799
what can people expect in the next issue

670
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:52,080
of the magazine

671
00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:55,120
richard i'm glad you asked me thank you

672
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:58,880
not like we rehearsed um

673
00:24:02,310 --> 00:24:01,840
here's a car um we've got a big feature

674
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:02,320
on

675
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:04,240
a topic which crops up all the time in

676
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:05,520
skeptical circles

677
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:08,400
um people look at what people believe

678
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:09,760
whether it's from flying sources in

679
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:10,880
astrology to

680
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:13,120
anti-vaxxers or all the ideas that they

681
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:14,400
and the claims they make

682
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:17,039
but a key issue for skeptics is why do

683
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:18,559
they believe it yeah

684
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:20,799
and actually there are probably as many

685
00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:22,320
reasons as there are believers

686
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:25,120
that's a normalistic psychology isn't it

687
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:26,960
it's it's in a way yes yes for people

688
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:28,080
believing yes it's

689
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:29,600
why people believe this why people

690
00:24:32,549 --> 00:24:31,200
believe those things and it is a big

691
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:32,559
topic and although

692
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:35,039
frankly not enough people are covering

693
00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:36,960
it in the paranormal area

694
00:24:40,149 --> 00:24:39,120
you know people psychologists and things

695
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:40,159
always talk about

696
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:42,000
uh why people believe but it's in in

697
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:44,480
this in the skeptical fraternity

698
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:46,159
it's a key topic but it's not covered

699
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:47,919
enough but the believer would say they

700
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:49,679
believe in this because it's true

701
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:51,279
yeah but there's various reasons why

702
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:52,400
other people more independent

703
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:54,000
researchers might say

704
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:55,600
why do you believe it's true yeah yeah

705
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:57,679
yeah and there's all sorts of things

706
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,640
obviously there's

707
00:25:02,070 --> 00:25:00,400
political reasons there's religious

708
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:02,080
reasons there's

709
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:05,279
conspiracy reasons and there's desire

710
00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:06,240
reasons and

711
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:08,159
all sorts of things why people cotton

712
00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:09,600
onto particular things which we might

713
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:11,840
regard as unsubstantiated

714
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:14,799
right which obviously they don't and

715
00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:16,080
it's uh

716
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:18,720
that's a good point um the cards going

717
00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:20,159
by don't bother me at all because this

718
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:21,520
is an interview and i'm just chatting to

719
00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:22,640
you it's not like we're recording

720
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:23,520
anything important

721
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:27,600
all right okay um put the rolls away

722
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:30,799
um but basically therefore we've got a

723
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:32,400
feature in the next issue which is the

724
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:35,760
june 2021 issue of the magazine

725
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:37,679
devoted to why people believe rather

726
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:39,120
than necessarily what they believe and

727
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:39,840
we talk to

728
00:25:47,669 --> 00:25:44,960
different people

729
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:47,679
about what they think uh what they might

730
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:49,120
suggest are the reasons that people

731
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:50,960
believe and as we say

732
00:25:54,789 --> 00:25:52,559
for a specific belief apart from the

733
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:54,799
people who are the promoters

734
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:57,520
who we would suggest uh have different

735
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:59,360
motivations to the believers

736
00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:01,360
they don't necessarily have the same

737
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,559
motivation so they know where you're

738
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:04,480
coming from yes there might be

739
00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:07,279
personal aggrandizement or someone's

740
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:07,760
money

741
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:10,880
these things

742
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:12,720
but i'm sure there are elements that are

743
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:14,080
different to the to the

744
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:16,720
followers yeah who follow their their

745
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:18,400
prognostications

746
00:26:21,909 --> 00:26:20,799
so and that's that's some of the stuff

747
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:21,919
we're covering that's probably going to

748
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:23,200
be a decent sized

749
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:25,679
part of the magazine but we're also

750
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:27,279
looking at some of those topics which

751
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:27,520
are

752
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:30,880
top of mind like the oxymetrical society

753
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:31,919
of top of mind

754
00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:34,720
absolutely top of mind people phone me

755
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:36,840
up and say tell me about the oxymetrical

756
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:38,159
society

757
00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:40,799
which is a fairly short-lived

758
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:42,559
organization from sydney university oh

759
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:43,039
yeah

760
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:44,880
which looked at oxoplasm now so

761
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:47,760
oxyplasma oxyplus now oxoplasma

762
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:51,039
what what oxoplasm is perhaps uh

763
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:52,799
there's one now that's one there's an

764
00:26:57,430 --> 00:26:54,480
oxoplasm going past

765
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:57,440
oxidation might be uh more generally

766
00:27:01,830 --> 00:26:59,039
referred to by its technical term which

767
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:03,830
and this was a bunch of academics from

768
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:06,080
sydney uni who were investigating

769
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:08,720
claims of [\h__\h] right so um and it

770
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:10,080
wasn't that long but a bit of a fun

771
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:12,159
thing basically i think so um

772
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:13,760
as you say everybody's knocking on the

773
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:15,120
door asking about the oxymetrical

774
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:17,120
society

775
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:18,559
we're looking at a few other things as

776
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:20,799
well we're looking at oh i i know that

777
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:21,600
um

778
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:22,799
you interviewed these people actually

779
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,960
running the interview by you of

780
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:26,880
two authors of a book about crystals

781
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:28,240
crystal family yes

782
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:30,880
very interesting we also review that

783
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:31,840
book and

784
00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:33,440
we do a regular sort of book reviews and

785
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:34,880
sometimes new books and sometimes we

786
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:36,159
look at classic books

787
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:38,080
yeah and in the past we've looked at

788
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:40,640
carl sagan's demon haunted world

789
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:42,640
and we've looked at uh james randy's

790
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:43,840
flimflam

791
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:47,520
and uh jane nichols what's it called uh

792
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:48,880
not sure on the shroud of tyrion

793
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,360
actually

794
00:27:52,549 --> 00:27:51,120
inquest on the shred of cheering right

795
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:52,559
so books like that

796
00:27:55,669 --> 00:27:54,080
um and but this time we're looking at a

797
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,679
book which is not quite as old

798
00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:57,120
but we still regard as a bit of a

799
00:28:01,510 --> 00:27:58,880
classic which is trick or treatment

800
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:01,520
oh yes yeah about ten years back yeah

801
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:02,480
2009

802
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:04,880
yeah yeah yeah yeah um and that's caused

803
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:07,120
by simon singh and edzard ernst

804
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:09,520
yes and from the very fact that it looks

805
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:11,679
at a whole range of different um

806
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:14,559
uh treatments alternative treatments and

807
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:15,200
assesses

808
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:17,679
them all and looks at scientific method

809
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:19,120
and all various things so that is really

810
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:20,480
really regarded as one of the you know

811
00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:21,520
the books you should have

812
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:23,919
in your library now the very first issue

813
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:24,960
of the skeptic

814
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:27,520
um which came out in 1981 so this is the

815
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:28,640
40th

816
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:31,840
year 41st year now

817
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:34,880
sorry to be pedantic what oh i see what

818
00:28:37,269 --> 00:28:35,360
you mean

819
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:37,279
yeah 41st year haven't completed the

820
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:38,640
41st year

821
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:42,320
sorry nevertheless

822
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:43,520
okay carry on richard what you were

823
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:45,760
saying was very interesting volume one

824
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:46,480
number one

825
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:49,679
came out in 1981 40 years ago and i

826
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:50,080
don't

827
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:53,440
know it's all on the website you can

828
00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:54,720
download that's got a big

829
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,760
the very first issue is is a tabloid

830
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,760
four pages four pages with a picture of

831
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:01,440
james randy on the cover

832
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:03,840
um and i can't remember what what time

833
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:05,440
of year that came out

834
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:07,120
there were only three issues three in

835
00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:08,960
that first year able to come in about

836
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:10,720
march or something like that actually

837
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,880
um as i said it was actually properly

838
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:14,320
type said it looked like a newspaper but

839
00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:15,360
a very thin one

840
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,640
yeah because there's really one large

841
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:18,640
sheet of paper folded over yes right so

842
00:29:21,669 --> 00:29:20,000
it's four pages

843
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:21,679
uh and the interesting thing then is

844
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:24,080
that um a lot of the stuff was classic

845
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,600
skepticism that we looked at then in

846
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:26,960
those days there was the psychics and

847
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:28,240
there was the predictions and that sort

848
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:28,960
of stuff

849
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:30,320
including someone who predicted that

850
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:31,840
perth was going to be wiped out by the

851
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:33,039
tidal wave that's right

852
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:35,039
which it never was surprisingly not yet

853
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:36,399
but it also had

854
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:38,640
yeah as far as the field of old med in

855
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:40,480
the the trick or treatment deals with we

856
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:40,880
had

857
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,760
there was only one story on medicine and

858
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:45,919
health in that particular little issue

859
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:48,240
and that was on psychic surgery yes

860
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:49,279
right there was nothing about

861
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:52,000
acupuncture or or anti-vaccination

862
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:53,760
or all the things that that well

863
00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:55,360
anti-vaccination wasn't a thing

864
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:57,039
40 years ago there was there was

865
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:58,240
occasional things yeah there were people

866
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:59,039
who objecting to

867
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:01,840
but there wasn't a dedicated not as much

868
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:02,640
as it was when

869
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:04,799
smallpox vaccination first came out of

870
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:06,320
course of course a fuss amongst a lot of

871
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:06,960
people

872
00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:10,080
uh george bernard shaw regarded as as as

873
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:10,960
a tarrant

874
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:13,679
that's a travesty as a danger yeah and

875
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:14,880
there were people who are suggesting

876
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:16,559
you're going to turn into cows

877
00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:18,159
et cetera because it came from cow pox

878
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:19,919
right they use the cardboard

879
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:21,520
so they're all these little drawings at

880
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,679
the time of people turning into cows

881
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:25,679
um but yeah i mean the people i think

882
00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:27,200
around the 50s and then people realized

883
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:28,880
you know the benefits of polio vaccine

884
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:29,600
and all the other

885
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:30,880
and since then there's been a lot more

886
00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:32,880
vaccines developed and

887
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:34,640
as same time as they develop the

888
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:36,000
diseases go down

889
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:37,760
in number and people don't think of them

890
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:39,679
as a danger and therefore the vaccines

891
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:40,399
are

892
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:42,159
themselves unwarranted that's the

893
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:44,480
anti-vaccination yeah yeah yeah but yeah

894
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:46,399
not as organized as it is now or in some

895
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:47,919
cases it's actually pretty disorganized

896
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:50,240
pretty disorganized but uh yeah so i

897
00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:51,120
mean the

898
00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:53,520
skeptic movement um has changed over the

899
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:55,360
years yeah oh well i know that first

900
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:55,840
issue

901
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:58,799
doris stokes wrong james randy doing

902
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:00,320
classical skepticism

903
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,880
yeah um yes tidal wave not ending perth

904
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:04,240
i mean those things are still floating

905
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:05,760
about but yes

906
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:06,799
they come and they go i mean the

907
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:08,000
psychics are still around making

908
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:09,760
predictions you probably don't know this

909
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:11,039
but psychics are still making a lot of

910
00:31:13,990 --> 00:31:12,399
predictions actually in women's

911
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:14,000
magazines

912
00:31:16,870 --> 00:31:15,440
it's quite amazing actually i mean

913
00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:16,880
there's spanish some people sold who's

914
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:18,159
going to collect them all

915
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:23,590
but yeah i don't know anyone who would

916
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:24,960
actually who would he could do foolish

917
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:27,120
enough to do that

918
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:29,120
foolhardy enough i don't know i'd hope

919
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:30,880
i'd never get near somebody that's right

920
00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:33,360
now next week folks on the skeptic zone

921
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:35,919
uh we're restarting uh the next uh

922
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:39,120
block of the the book of tim who's

923
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:40,640
arriving in that plane right now

924
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:42,799
there's another one uh and we're looking

925
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:44,880
at the cycle of life over the next

926
00:31:48,389 --> 00:31:47,120
month or so that's right yeah and it's

927
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,399
something which i write

928
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:50,480
yes you do and it takes a lot of work

929
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:52,159
right so a huge amount of effort yeah

930
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:52,720
yeah

931
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:54,320
beautifully type said i have a copy

932
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,760
right here as

933
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:57,440
is as is all the magazine actually

934
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:59,039
beautifully laid out by our

935
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,799
in-house design team that's very good

936
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:02,320
right um and uh

937
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:04,320
yeah no it's about um how you know you

938
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,559
start off with a particular fact

939
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:08,399
and then you through various connections

940
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:10,559
sometimes tenuous

941
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,000
this is ridiculous that's me landing

942
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:14,640
again that's your language ufo by

943
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:15,840
helicopter

944
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:19,360
um that's low yeah they're looking for

945
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:20,240
someone

946
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:23,919
um you know through links from one story

947
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,559
yeah

948
00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:26,399
it's often pretty tenuous sometimes it

949
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:28,159
is a bit but it's very entertaining it's

950
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:29,840
highly entertaining and listeners will

951
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:32,159
you and i i enjoy doing that putting

952
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:33,039
that together actually

953
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:35,440
sometimes i'm amazed at how i can

954
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:36,720
actually think in my own head

955
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,799
that must be connected to this look for

956
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,320
something it's a mess in there i

957
00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:42,240
wouldn't go there it's very dark right

958
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:44,399
but i mean you do when you're writing it

959
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:45,440
you have to think

960
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:47,360
what might that connect to yeah yeah and

961
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:48,640
you have all these ideas in your hands

962
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:50,159
but it works somehow and you get back to

963
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:51,120
the beginning brilliant

964
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:53,840
yeah yeah it's amazingly put together

965
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:55,440
the cycle of life it's uh yeah the

966
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:56,320
things that go around

967
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:57,440
that's the opposite of someone who might

968
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:59,279
collect psychic predictions that's right

969
00:33:01,669 --> 00:33:00,399
which is sort of like sad

970
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:01,679
very we're doing this is very

971
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:03,919
interesting but yes we like um

972
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:05,600
i mean a lot of people say they like the

973
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:07,120
what goes around

974
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:08,960
it's a nice segment now how can people

975
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:10,559
how can listeners if they feel so

976
00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:12,640
inclined how can they um

977
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:15,440
maybe help or get ideas to you for

978
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:16,960
segments and articles and reports and

979
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:17,279
things

980
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:19,600
for the magazines i would love ideas and

981
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:20,880
thoughts and articles and

982
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:23,360
letters and uh forum pieces which are

983
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:25,840
sort of long letters of outraged opinion

984
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:27,919
um even book reviews and that sort of

985
00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:29,919
stuff yep best thing to do is contact me

986
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:30,480
first

987
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:32,399
make sure we haven't done it already yes

988
00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:33,679
yes but um

989
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:36,840
they can write to me at editor

990
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:38,240
skeptics.com

991
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:41,279
you yeah um and just say hi

992
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:43,279
i can write and i'd like to write about

993
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:44,960
this escape this is the topic what do

994
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,159
you think this is the topic

995
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:48,399
say one sentence summary and i said that

996
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:49,519
sounds interesting

997
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:52,240
and because we we pay everybody in round

998
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:53,120
figures

999
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:58,559
circles in fact in fact i i seem to

1000
00:34:01,509 --> 00:34:00,080
contribute quite a bit to the magazine

1001
00:34:03,269 --> 00:34:01,519
over the years and folks i can promise

1002
00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:03,279
you every time i contribute

1003
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:05,840
i get um a multiplication of the last

1004
00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:07,120
that's the page yes

1005
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:09,040
there is inflation on this yeah zero

1006
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:10,800
times zero times zero

1007
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:13,520
yes extremely generous we are run on the

1008
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,119
smell of an oily rag

1009
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:17,760
so um and really so yeah have i written

1010
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:19,280
anything for the next issue oh it's a

1011
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:19,599
matter

1012
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:21,359
or the interview i did at the interview

1013
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:22,960
yeah i'm thinking that because

1014
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:25,520
we have that we have this um parasitic

1015
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:26,639
sort of relationship between the

1016
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:27,919
skateboarding magazine and

1017
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,320
and the the skeptics act we do yeah yes

1018
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:32,159
and we feed off each other like leeches

1019
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,800
i i

1020
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:34,560
i supply you with stories and you

1021
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:36,000
supplied me with the stories

1022
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:37,440
that's exactly right but that's the way

1023
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:38,960
the sceptical community works right i

1024
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,040
think i think we're all in this together

1025
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:43,520
right we also be chipping in and helping

1026
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:44,800
each other out and i think i think

1027
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:46,000
that's part of the nice thing about the

1028
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:46,960
escape description especially in

1029
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:47,520
australia

1030
00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:53,760
but they like to have a bit of fun so if

1031
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:55,200
you haven't been along to a skeptic's

1032
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:56,960
meeting whether you're in

1033
00:35:00,790 --> 00:35:00,079
sydney or melbourne or wherever look up

1034
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:00,800
the magazine

1035
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:02,800
yeah we have a list of organizations

1036
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:04,320
there and when they hold meetings yeah

1037
00:35:08,710 --> 00:35:07,040
and i say go along go along we were that

1038
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:08,720
close to going along last week weren't

1039
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:10,079
you where that was well we've had online

1040
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,320
meetings in sydney ever since we've

1041
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:14,880
had our online skeptics in the pub but

1042
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:16,640
but last week we were

1043
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:19,920
within hours of turning up at the hours

1044
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:21,200
and then the government put in new

1045
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:22,960
restrictions yeah i know it was very

1046
00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:24,640
disappointing

1047
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,720
indeed uh especially for our speaker

1048
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:28,480
who'd flown in from the us just for that

1049
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:30,240
just for that spent two weeks in

1050
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,720
quarantine

1051
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:34,720
poor guy but yeah i mean sort of

1052
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:35,760
actually most of the groups are now

1053
00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:37,359
returning to face-to-face yeah

1054
00:35:40,950 --> 00:35:39,200
i mean for last year they're largely

1055
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,960
doing it they were streaming in whatever

1056
00:35:43,910 --> 00:35:42,640
sort of place which is all very well but

1057
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,920
i'm looking forward to getting i'm

1058
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:45,359
looking forward to having a beer

1059
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:47,280
me too i haven't had a beer any years i

1060
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:48,960
used to watch it online and have a beer

1061
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:50,240
in front of me actually

1062
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:52,800
i had my little steak and chips and a

1063
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:53,359
plate

1064
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:55,200
and my beer well well for the last year

1065
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:57,119
i've been the one hosting it so i

1066
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:58,800
really couldn't have a beer next to me

1067
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:59,839
because you know you have a couple of

1068
00:36:01,829 --> 00:36:00,320
beers

1069
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:01,839
and your hosting ability goes out the

1070
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:03,359
door never stop me

1071
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,640
i think i improve all right well there

1072
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:07,760
you are folks that's

1073
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:09,359
coming up in the next issue of the

1074
00:36:12,349 --> 00:36:10,800
skeptic the journal from australian

1075
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,359
skeptics and again just go to

1076
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:14,160
skeptics.com.edu you can download all

1077
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:16,400
the past issues by the last few that

1078
00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:18,000
last four years we keep the last four

1079
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:21,200
exclusives for our subscribers yep we do

1080
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:22,800
so subscribe and get the latest issue

1081
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:24,640
delivered to your inbox or physically in

1082
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:25,119
your

1083
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:27,680
box hard copy or digital that's it thank

1084
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:35,710
well that filled up 10 minutes of

1085
00:36:41,170 --> 00:36:38,839
[Music]

1086
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:41,180
rubbish

1087
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:53,670
hello this is maynard did you know that

1088
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:55,280
you could listen to the skeptic zone on

1089
00:37:03,349 --> 00:36:56,000
youtube

1090
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:05,910
also you can hear 40 logical fallacies

1091
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:07,280
with michelle bigesma

1092
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:09,119
and funny sketches with richard saunders

1093
00:37:24,410 --> 00:37:14,710
just click on the youtube links on the

1094
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:35,349
[Music]

1095
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:37,200
once again it's time to look into the

1096
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:38,800
pages of archives

1097
00:37:42,069 --> 00:37:41,119
of digitized newspapers periodicals

1098
00:37:45,829 --> 00:37:42,079
journals

1099
00:37:47,510 --> 00:37:45,839
and so on in the section we call trove

1100
00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:47,520
although in recent weeks we've been

1101
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:48,880
looking at

1102
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:52,160
us newspapers as opposed to australian

1103
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:53,200
newspapers

1104
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:56,320
and we're continuing this week with

1105
00:38:01,030 --> 00:37:59,280
a revisiting of a theme or a general

1106
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:01,040
theme we covered some months ago that of

1107
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:03,280
ufos but we're looking

1108
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:06,640
at a subsection wfo reports this is

1109
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:09,839
to do with alien abductions

1110
00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:12,079
now i've never abducted an alien myself

1111
00:38:18,370 --> 00:38:13,040
but people do

1112
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:18,380
claim they have been abducted by aliens

1113
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:24,870
and so out of the many reports

1114
00:38:30,829 --> 00:38:27,440
i've discovered i've chosen three and

1115
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:33,190
1996

1116
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:36,400
from the chronicle and i think this was

1117
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:38,240
probably a syndicated piece anyway

1118
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:39,520
because i

1119
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:42,880
i saw it pop up various times

1120
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:46,640
and it's a review aliens crippled by

1121
00:38:53,750 --> 00:38:50,640
style steve fogerty

1122
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:53,760
the chronicle telegram and this is in

1123
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:54,800
the entertainment

1124
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:57,359
section and it's a review of a a

1125
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:59,280
documentary

1126
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:01,680
making use of lots of crazily angled

1127
00:39:07,270 --> 00:39:04,079
fuzzy images and stock pictures of

1128
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:07,280
big-headed aliens with huge black eyes

1129
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:10,400
abducted by aliens obviously wants to

1130
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:13,200
convey the unearthly experience of being

1131
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:14,480
taken captive by

1132
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:17,040
beings from somewhere else but all those

1133
00:39:21,190 --> 00:39:19,440
arty visuals may do is make you feel

1134
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:21,200
like you've just come off

1135
00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:24,640
an all-night bender the roughly

1136
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:26,560
80-minute program

1137
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:30,000
packaged in a two-hour time block

1138
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:32,560
is produced and directed by kurt

1139
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:34,079
wolfinger

1140
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:37,599
and dana ray warren the pair that gave

1141
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:38,240
us

1142
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:41,040
moonshot a peabody winning documentary

1143
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:43,440
on the ill-fated mission of apollo 13

1144
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:47,040
that also aired on tbs abducted by

1145
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:48,880
aliens

1146
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:51,599
is the latest in the tbs original

1147
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:54,079
documentary series

1148
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:56,400
but with the alien invasion blockbuster

1149
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:58,079
independence day still fresh in our

1150
00:40:02,710 --> 00:39:58,880
minds

1151
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:02,720
it plays more like a pumped up docudrama

1152
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:04,880
than a straight-on examination of six

1153
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,280
people whose lives have forever been

1154
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,359
changed by purported encounters with

1155
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:11,280
beings from other worlds

1156
00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:13,040
this is more a fault of the jazzed up

1157
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:15,440
visuals that include images seemingly

1158
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:16,400
borrowed from

1159
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:19,359
the twilight zone such as repeated shots

1160
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:21,119
of clocks that appear to be

1161
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:23,760
melting far less gimmicky and

1162
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:24,720
straightforward

1163
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:26,720
are the three stories the program

1164
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:27,920
focuses on

1165
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:31,040
these include jack and jim viner

1166
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:34,160
identical twins who claim to have been

1167
00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:37,359
abducted and examined by aliens while on

1168
00:40:41,430 --> 00:40:40,400
a fishing trip claire holcomb and diana

1169
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:41,440
graves

1170
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:44,000
two women whose seemingly dissimilar

1171
00:40:47,829 --> 00:40:46,000
lives are actually interwoven with

1172
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:47,839
memories of a shared

1173
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:51,280
alien abduction fred wilson an inspiring

1174
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:53,359
stand-up comic whose career was nearly

1175
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:55,280
destroyed following his abduction

1176
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,000
experience on route to a comedy gig

1177
00:41:01,990 --> 00:41:00,240
one night in vermont cutting back and

1178
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:02,000
forth between segments the program

1179
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:04,079
reinforces some of the classic

1180
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:07,440
elements of ufo sightings and abductions

1181
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:09,920
such as sightings of bright lights and

1182
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:11,280
hovering objects

1183
00:41:15,829 --> 00:41:14,319
paralysis of abductees during their

1184
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:15,839
experience and medical

1185
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:18,960
examinations that include extraction of

1186
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:20,480
bodily fluids

1187
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:23,200
and in the case of the two women

1188
00:41:27,750 --> 00:41:24,720
impregnation

1189
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:27,760
by the aliens now the major themes

1190
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:30,319
reiterated by all five are the elements

1191
00:41:34,309 --> 00:41:30,720
of

1192
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:34,319
missing time and suppressed memory

1193
00:41:39,109 --> 00:41:36,800
missing time is the phenomena of being

1194
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:39,119
unable to account for periods of time

1195
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:41,359
during which the victims recall

1196
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:44,160
being at one point prior to their

1197
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:45,359
experience

1198
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:48,480
and finding themselves miles away

1199
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:51,359
with no explanation of how they got from

1200
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:52,319
one point

1201
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:55,440
to the other suppressed memory is the

1202
00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:58,720
seeming inability of abductees

1203
00:42:02,309 --> 00:42:01,280
to remember their experiences in any

1204
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:02,319
detail

1205
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:05,599
hypnosis has been used extensively

1206
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:09,280
to try and unlock such memories from the

1207
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:12,480
subconscious viewers can feel empathy

1208
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:13,200
for the

1209
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:16,560
abductees supposedly horrendous

1210
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:18,960
experiences such as when graves

1211
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:22,240
tearfully says there is no treatment for

1212
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:22,800
this

1213
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:25,920
you just survive it or wilson

1214
00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:29,200
wishing his nightmarish ordeal could be

1215
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:29,920
chalked up

1216
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:32,319
to an organic brain disorder because at

1217
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:33,359
least then

1218
00:42:37,109 --> 00:42:35,599
the world would be safe but other

1219
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,119
details of the

1220
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:39,359
abductee's experiences are pretty hard

1221
00:42:43,670 --> 00:42:40,319
to swallow

1222
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:43,680
such as when jim and jack viner talk of

1223
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:44,160
being

1224
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:46,960
pulled from their boyhood beds by

1225
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:48,560
invisible beings

1226
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:52,000
and having their eyes plucked out

1227
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:55,040
examined and returned to their bodies by

1228
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:56,960
the aliens during their adult

1229
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:59,200
abduction your graves talking about

1230
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:00,480
going to bed

1231
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:03,359
with shaved legs and waking up the next

1232
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:04,240
morning with hair

1233
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:07,280
all over them the most chilling moments

1234
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:07,920
of

1235
00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:10,880
abducted by aliens comes when the five

1236
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,319
people profiled expressed

1237
00:43:17,030 --> 00:43:14,960
the emotional anguish of not being

1238
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:17,040
believed by family and friends

1239
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:19,839
one of the documentaries most ironic and

1240
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:21,040
funnier moments

1241
00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:24,160
comes when the viners confess that their

1242
00:43:28,150 --> 00:43:26,319
own mother didn't believe their story

1243
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:28,160
until she saw them telling it

1244
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:31,440
on the david letterman show

1245
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:34,240
it took tv to legitimize and validate

1246
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:35,440
their ordeal

1247
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:39,200
for their own mother don't expect

1248
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:42,880
abducted by aliens to do the same

1249
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:45,839
abducted by aliens debuts sunday at 9 00

1250
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:46,319
pm

1251
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:51,440
on tbs it repeats at 1 am monday

1252
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:54,720
i don't think i've seen that documentary

1253
00:43:59,630 --> 00:43:56,560
maybe it's floating around youtube or

1254
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:59,640
something the next item comes to us from

1255
00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:00,960
1997

1256
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:04,960
the orange leader dated the 2nd of april

1257
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:07,280
alien policy dropped london the

1258
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:08,800
associated press

1259
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:11,280
the company that insured the 39 members

1260
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,119
of the heavens gate cult against

1261
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:14,800
abduction by aliens

1262
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:17,280
said today it stopped writing alien

1263
00:44:21,750 --> 00:44:18,400
related policies

1264
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:21,760
after the group's mass suicide the cult

1265
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:23,680
members paid 1 000

1266
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:26,880
on october 10 for a policy that covered

1267
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,680
up to 50 members and would pay out 1

1268
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:30,960
million dollars per

1269
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:34,640
person for abduction impregnation or

1270
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:38,240
death caused by aliens because of the

1271
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:39,599
manipulation of

1272
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:42,400
malevolent third parties innocent lies

1273
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:43,280
were wrecked

1274
00:44:47,349 --> 00:44:45,119
managing director of the good fellow

1275
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:47,359
rebecca ingram's pearson

1276
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:50,400
insurance company said today i am deeply

1277
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:51,680
shocked and saddened

1278
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,560
and that's why we're withdrawing from

1279
00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:56,160
the alien abduction

1280
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:58,800
insurance market we don't wish to

1281
00:45:01,510 --> 00:45:00,560
contribute to a repetition of the

1282
00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:01,520
heaven's gate

1283
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:03,760
deaths he said the group discovered his

1284
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:05,920
company provided alien abduction

1285
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,440
insurance via the internet

1286
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:09,839
the beneficiary of the policy was the

1287
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:11,760
society of heaven's gate

1288
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,720
said burgess he said the cult had paid

1289
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:16,240
the premium

1290
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:18,240
and the annual policy remains in force

1291
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:20,160
until october 9.

1292
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:21,839
they would have to prove they were

1293
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:24,240
abducted he added

1294
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:27,040
last summer the company added alien

1295
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:29,440
abduction insurance to the unusual

1296
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:31,200
policies it covers

1297
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:33,839
which burgess said accounted for 10

1298
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:36,960
percent of its overall business

1299
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:39,599
heavensgate was one of the 4 000

1300
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:41,520
policyholders worldwide

1301
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:44,079
who bought alien abduction insurance he

1302
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:44,720
said

1303
00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:46,960
adding that britain and the united

1304
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:48,800
states were the biggest markets

1305
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:50,960
the policies against alien abductions

1306
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:53,119
will not be renewed

1307
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:55,359
when they lapse burgess said but the

1308
00:46:00,069 --> 00:45:57,040
company continues to offer

1309
00:46:02,069 --> 00:46:00,079
unusual policies we ensure virgins

1310
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:02,079
against immaculate conception

1311
00:46:06,470 --> 00:46:04,079
prostitutes against loss of earnings

1312
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:06,480
from headache and backache

1313
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:09,760
conversion to a werewolf or vampire

1314
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:11,760
death or serious injury through

1315
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:13,200
paranormal activity

1316
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:15,599
and unfaithful husbands against having

1317
00:46:19,270 --> 00:46:16,880
their penis cut off

1318
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:19,280
he said that's a funny note to end that

1319
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:20,960
report on but certainly

1320
00:46:25,030 --> 00:46:23,359
the heavens gate cult was no laugh being

1321
00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:25,040
madder i remember it very well at the

1322
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:26,400
time

1323
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:28,319
innocent people duped into thinking that

1324
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:29,839
they would be um

1325
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:33,520
swept away by ufos visiting the earth

1326
00:46:41,829 --> 00:46:37,119
and uh sadly dying in the process

1327
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:41,839
by um if i remember correctly

1328
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:45,040
poison and that tragic story also is

1329
00:46:51,270 --> 00:46:47,440
reflected in the next item i have here

1330
00:46:54,829 --> 00:46:51,280
this comes from 1997 april 13th

1331
00:46:58,710 --> 00:46:54,839
arlington heights daily herald suburban

1332
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:58,720
chicago cult puts ufo conference in new

1333
00:47:02,470 --> 00:46:59,520
light

1334
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,480
gathering now object of ridicule

1335
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:04,079
associated press

1336
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:07,040
eureka springs arkansas for a group that

1337
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:07,440
shares

1338
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:10,400
stories about being sucked out of cars

1339
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:11,599
by aliens or

1340
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:14,079
losing stock to laser beams the

1341
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:16,240
uninvited visitors who believed

1342
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:20,079
they would reach the afterlife in a ufo

1343
00:47:24,069 --> 00:47:23,280
were just too weird when members of the

1344
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:24,079
heavens gate

1345
00:47:28,549 --> 00:47:26,480
cult tried to join discussions at the

1346
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:28,559
annual ozark ufo conference

1347
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,520
three years ago they were permitted only

1348
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:33,760
to drop off literature

1349
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:36,400
no theological debates were tolerated

1350
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:38,319
the conference attracts a crowd

1351
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:40,559
more interested in largely nuts and

1352
00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:41,839
bolts issues

1353
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:45,280
ufo sightings and tales of how i got

1354
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:47,680
abducted by aliens in a big spaceship

1355
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:50,160
and i'm here to tell my story this year

1356
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:51,520
they can't avoid the

1357
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:54,240
subject of heaven's gate and its members

1358
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:54,640
mass

1359
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:58,079
suicides i remember them showing up

1360
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:00,559
talking about jesus and ufos

1361
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:03,920
says tabby reynolds a 33 year old from

1362
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,440
toulouse oklahoma

1363
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:08,160
these cult people started arguing with

1364
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:09,359
my friend

1365
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:12,480
they also made weird chirping noises

1366
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:15,200
they were really weird 39 members of

1367
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:16,480
heaven's gate cult

1368
00:48:20,309 --> 00:48:19,200
killed themselves over a series of days

1369
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:20,319
in late march

1370
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:22,640
in a southern californian mansion

1371
00:48:26,790 --> 00:48:23,440
believing

1372
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:26,800
they would be taken to eternal peace

1373
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:29,760
on the ufo trailing behind the hale bop

1374
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:30,960
comet

1375
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:34,160
at the ozarks conference ufos are valued

1376
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:34,880
only as

1377
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:38,400
proof of extraterrestrial life not as

1378
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:41,359
transportation to eternal life that

1379
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:43,440
whole heavensgate incident has made a

1380
00:48:46,069 --> 00:48:45,119
conference like this the object of

1381
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:46,079
ridicule

1382
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:48,559
says lou farish coordinator of the 9th

1383
00:48:53,589 --> 00:48:51,119
annual ozark ufo conference

1384
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:53,599
the difference is they integrated ufos

1385
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:54,160
into

1386
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:56,800
a set belief system we're all

1387
00:49:01,670 --> 00:48:59,599
individuals here with individual minds

1388
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:01,680
about 400 people attended the weekend

1389
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:03,680
conference at this resort

1390
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:06,559
town in the ozark mountains i've seen

1391
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:09,119
enough about ufos and extraterrestrials

1392
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:12,000
know that the phenomenon of ufos goes

1393
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:15,440
beyond hallucination and hoaxes said 48

1394
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:16,079
year old

1395
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:19,200
gary massey of paris texas who runs the

1396
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:19,680
lone

1397
00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:22,800
star bar at the conference vendors

1398
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:24,920
peddled aliens statues books on

1399
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:26,319
extraterrestrials

1400
00:49:31,349 --> 00:49:28,880
keychains and flying saucer mugs while

1401
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:31,359
speakers like psychologist robert stone

1402
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:33,119
of pensacola florida

1403
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:35,680
tried to convince crowds of the

1404
00:49:40,230 --> 00:49:37,760
intangible

1405
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:40,240
stone claims a group of peaceful aliens

1406
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:43,119
took him aboard a spaceship in 1991.

1407
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:45,280
a few people have already come up to me

1408
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:46,800
to tell me that they've had

1409
00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:49,920
similar experiences stone said i can

1410
00:49:52,870 --> 00:49:52,000
understand why some people don't believe

1411
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:52,880
in this but

1412
00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:55,599
if there were this many witnesses in a

1413
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:56,960
court of law

1414
00:50:00,710 --> 00:50:00,079
someone would be convicted dozens of

1415
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:00,720
people

1416
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:03,440
bought pictures of disc shaped objects

1417
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:05,920
they say are flying sources

1418
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:09,280
not everyone accepted them at face value

1419
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:11,359
at least one third of all these

1420
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:12,960
photographs are fakes

1421
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:16,800
and i could prove it says bob shell

1422
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:19,119
editor of shutterbug a photography

1423
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:20,319
magazine

1424
00:50:23,510 --> 00:50:22,640
it's amazing what they can do with

1425
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:23,520
pictures

1426
00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:26,640
these things could be ufos but i'm

1427
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:29,920
one of the skeptics dr john carpenter

1428
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:32,079
who operates a psychiatric practice in

1429
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:33,440
springfield missouri

1430
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:35,119
came to the conference to speak about

1431
00:50:39,589 --> 00:50:36,640
his research

1432
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:39,599
he has counseled more than 120 people

1433
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:41,680
who claim to have been abducted by

1434
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:42,800
aliens

1435
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,880
typically people find themselves being

1436
00:50:49,829 --> 00:50:46,800
floated off in a blue

1437
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:49,839
iridescent moonlight says carpenter i

1438
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,559
try to

1439
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:52,400
trick people to see if they are making

1440
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,240
it up but i have had

1441
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:56,880
17 cases of people who have been

1442
00:51:01,829 --> 00:50:58,800
abducted together

1443
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:01,839
and during hypnotherapy they remember

1444
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:03,040
the same things

1445
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:06,240
it's almost embarrassing to say and

1446
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:09,520
accompanying the item there's a black

1447
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:11,200
and white image of a blow up

1448
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:14,800
alien and a book or a dvd it's hard to

1449
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:18,960
tell it's a bit fuzzy it says ufo

1450
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:21,520
something about ufos i can't quite tell

1451
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:23,200
and people milling around

1452
00:51:28,870 --> 00:51:26,800
at the vendors table with the caption

1453
00:51:30,549 --> 00:51:28,880
visitors attending the ninth annual

1454
00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:30,559
ozark ufo conference

1455
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:33,200
look over items for sale relating to

1456
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:35,280
unidentified flying objects

1457
00:51:41,109 --> 00:51:38,510
on friday at eureka springs arkansas

1458
00:51:43,750 --> 00:51:41,119
[Music]

1459
00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:43,760
so that was just three of the many

1460
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:46,079
returns when we run searches for

1461
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:47,920
productions and ufos and things like

1462
00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:50,240
that and it did

1463
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:51,920
bring back into focus all these years

1464
00:51:57,589 --> 00:51:53,920
later the heavens gate

1465
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:57,599
cult and just quickly to refresh your

1466
00:52:02,390 --> 00:51:59,680
memory and mine too

1467
00:52:03,750 --> 00:52:02,400
from wikipedia uh heaven's gate

1468
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:03,760
religious group

1469
00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:05,920
heaven's gate was an american new

1470
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:06,960
religious movement

1471
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:09,440
often described as a cult it was founded

1472
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:11,680
in 1974

1473
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:14,880
and led by bonnie nettles and

1474
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:18,240
marshall applewhite known within the

1475
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:19,040
movement as

1476
00:52:22,950 --> 00:52:22,319
thai and do respectively nettles and

1477
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:22,960
apple white

1478
00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:26,480
first met in 1972 and went on

1479
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:29,040
a journey of spiritual discovery

1480
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:31,200
identifying themselves as the

1481
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:34,079
two witnesses of revelation attracting a

1482
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:36,000
following of several hundred people

1483
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:39,040
in the mid 1970s

1484
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:42,079
in 1976 the group stopped recruiting

1485
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:45,920
and instituted a monastic lifestyle and

1486
00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:48,720
goes on to say that the

1487
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:51,440
religion is being described as a ufo

1488
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:52,800
religion

1489
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:55,200
central belief of the group was that

1490
00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:57,200
followers could transform themselves

1491
00:53:02,230 --> 00:52:59,680
into immortal extraterrestrial beings by

1492
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:02,240
rejecting their human nature

1493
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:05,280
and they would ascend to heaven

1494
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:08,240
referred to as the next level or the

1495
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:09,200
evolutionary

1496
00:53:12,470 --> 00:53:11,920
level above human but the crux of this

1497
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:12,480
is

1498
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:17,040
um on march 26 1997 deputies of the san

1499
00:53:21,270 --> 00:53:19,119
diego sheriff's county department

1500
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:21,280
discovered the bodies of 38 active

1501
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:22,480
members of the group

1502
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:25,040
including that of applewhite in a house

1503
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:26,160
in san diego

1504
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:28,800
in the san diego suburb of rancho santa

1505
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:30,000
fe

1506
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:32,960
they had participated in a mass suicide

1507
00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:36,079
a coordinated series of ritual suicides

1508
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,400
coinciding with the closest approach of

1509
00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:40,079
the comet hail bop

1510
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:41,920
just before the mass suicide the group's

1511
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:44,160
website was updated with the message

1512
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:46,480
hale bop brings closure to heaven's gate

1513
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:49,440
our 22 years of classroom here on planet

1514
00:53:54,069 --> 00:53:51,760
earth is finally coming to conclusion

1515
00:53:55,990 --> 00:53:54,079
graduation from the human evolutionary

1516
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:56,000
level we are happily prepared

1517
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:59,280
to leave this world and go with ty's

1518
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:01,119
crew

1519
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:04,319
and the item here on wiki is lengthy

1520
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:06,079
indeed it goes on and on but that's the

1521
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:07,520
crux of it

1522
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:09,359
people who were duped into believing

1523
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:11,760
that something that they thought was

1524
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:13,119
following the hailbot

1525
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:17,040
comet was actually a ufo to take them

1526
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:20,880
well to the next level so sometimes yes

1527
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:22,880
ufo stories are funny and interesting

1528
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:25,200
and fun to investigate

1529
00:54:32,390 --> 00:54:27,200
and part of our culture for a long time

1530
00:54:35,990 --> 00:54:34,230
but don't forget no matter where you are

1531
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:36,000
in the world you too may well have

1532
00:54:40,990 --> 00:54:38,720
access to unlike newspapers and so on

1533
00:54:42,870 --> 00:54:41,000
i think anybody can go to

1534
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:42,880
trove.nla.gov.eu to look at australian

1535
00:54:46,789 --> 00:54:44,400
newspapers and so on

1536
00:55:06,789 --> 00:54:46,799
and i recommend you do it you never know

1537
00:55:10,150 --> 00:55:08,309
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1538
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:10,160
zone and thank you to the new patreons

1539
00:55:14,789 --> 00:55:12,319
that have just come on board

1540
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:14,799
in the last week chipping in to help out

1541
00:55:17,950 --> 00:55:16,000
the skeptic zone

1542
00:55:19,270 --> 00:55:17,960
and you can do that too by visiting

1543
00:55:22,150 --> 00:55:19,280
skepticzone.tv

1544
00:55:23,829 --> 00:55:22,160
and clicking the patreon link while

1545
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:23,839
you're there scroll to the bottom of the

1546
00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:24,559
page

1547
00:55:28,390 --> 00:55:26,559
and you can check out my origami

1548
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:28,400
photographs for sale

1549
00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:30,720
there's a few freebies for you to

1550
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:32,880
download and print out at high quality

1551
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:35,200
or you can check out the gallery of 50

1552
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:36,160
more

1553
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:39,040
up on a website called pickfair where

1554
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:40,000
you can

1555
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:43,599
buy those prints or those digital copies

1556
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:47,200
which helps support the skeptic zone

1557
00:55:50,230 --> 00:55:49,440
but for this week this is richard

1558
00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:50,240
saunders

1559
00:56:00,710 --> 00:55:59,270
you've been listening to the skeptic

1560
00:56:03,950 --> 00:56:00,720
zone podcast

1561
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:03,960
please visit our website at

1562
00:56:08,390 --> 00:56:05,359
www.skepticzone.tv

1563
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:08,400
for show notes contacts and to access

1564
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:10,400
the back catalog of episodes

1565
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:13,920
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1566
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:16,000
skeptic zone podcast on twitter

1567
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:19,440
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1568
00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:22,960
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1569
00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:24,400
support the skeptic zone

1570
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:27,599
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1571
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:28,960
podcast is an

1572
00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:31,359
independent production the views and

1573
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:33,440
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

1574
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:35,520
are not necessarily those of australian

1575
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:36,720
skeptics or

1576
00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:52,789
hello to the afterthoughts the people

1577
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:54,480
who keep listening after the music

1578
00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:58,000
ends or happen to keep

1579
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:01,119
listening by accident because you didn't

1580
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:04,720
turn off the podcast happens sometimes

1581
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:07,680
people get a surprise i like this part

1582
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:08,880
of the show because i don't care if

1583
00:57:14,870 --> 00:57:11,920
there are birds or noises or dogs or

1584
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:14,880
or whatever outside the studio this is

1585
00:57:20,549 --> 00:57:17,280
where i roll a dice a die

1586
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:20,559
three times where's my skeptic's notepad

1587
00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:21,359
here it is

1588
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:25,040
let's see oops and a skeptic's own

1589
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:26,400
pencil

1590
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:30,319
right i'm going to roll this

1591
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:32,240
ten sided die three times in my dice

1592
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,400
rolling machine

1593
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:36,960
thank you to greg doray from the bay

1594
00:57:39,750 --> 00:57:38,240
area who

1595
00:57:41,829 --> 00:57:39,760
gave me that as a present it's sort of

1596
00:57:44,710 --> 00:57:41,839
like a a wheat silo

1597
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:44,720
or a wheat elevator and there's the

1598
00:57:49,430 --> 00:57:47,760
plane which i don't care about

1599
00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:49,440
anyway we're going to roll this die

1600
00:57:54,069 --> 00:57:51,280
three times you guess you use your

1601
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:54,079
psychic power or whatever you wish to

1602
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:55,200
see if you can uh

1603
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:56,799
predict the number here it comes first

1604
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,789
three okay

1605
00:58:09,349 --> 00:58:06,829
three next number coming up predictor

1606
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:09,359
way

1607
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:13,200
nine and the last number

1608
00:58:19,510 --> 00:58:16,240
it's a nice translucent uh um

1609
00:58:24,309 --> 00:58:19,520
gold color yellow colored dye

1610
00:58:28,390 --> 00:58:24,319
last number is ten there you go three

1611
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:28,400
nine and ten and i'll use a blue die now